Ideen vor die Fremde

[Voske4000]

First and foremost i want to apoligise for not doing this in German, but I was unable to find any help on english and dutch websites. Hence I figured this Tavern would be of more help to me.
I feel that it would be easier to comprehend to do this in english rather then my broken German. Feel free to answer in German however.

Bear with me, this is gonna be a long one.

I have made some ideas for the Stranger some designed as serious, others more for fun.

I do however may need some finetuning especially to make them less 'overpowered' or make them more usefull. Therefor I would like to ask the community to help me out by giving their thoughts and possible changes on these ideas.
Some may have multiple options I already am doubting between, but dont hesitate to give your own idea if you have a better one.

The first I could use some help on are the ranks to give to the characters. Is there a specific logic for that? Currently I was thinking to just look at the map and decide on a 'field number' that would make sence for them. However this feels a bit too easy. ^^

Second the choice of dice. I have put some idea's down however I feel most dont have a 'correct' amount to make it balanced.

Next are the classes itself. The class mentioned next to the dice is what it would fall under if a class-specific event happens (such as WP-loss for the mage and archer only, for example), it does not replace this class.

1) Assassin (2-3-3 dice) (archer)
Can join a battle from an adjacent field (Moves to the location of the fight without spending an hour. Only works when someone else starts the battle, cannot initiate battle himself like this).
Additionally he can attempt a backstab in a battle (at the cost of 1WP?) Before the battle starts rolls one hero-dice to determine effectivity.
result 1: the attack failed and gains -2SP (for a certain high risk-high reward thing. -1 or -2, still not sure)
result 2 or 3: The attack had no special effect.
result 5 or 4: The attack succeeded and gaines +1SP
result 6: the attack struck a critical hit, gaining +2SP and making a perfect silent kill resulting in not moving the narrator up on the legend track.

2) Beast Tamer (2-3-4) (archer)
After defeating or helping defeat a Gor, Skrall or Wardrak he can take command of it (at a max of 1 minion)(the narrator moves normally as if it would have died). During his turn he can choose the action 'move minion' allowing him to move the controlled beast 4 spaces for 1 hour (8 for 2, etc. like Prince Thorald).
If the monster is on the same field as an occuring battle (does not have to involve the Beast Tamer) it adds its normal SP (as it would be under normal circumstances) to the SP of the battling heroes.
(Perhaps let the monster die at the end of the next day.)

3) Master of Time (1-2-3) (mage)
Once a day he can freeze time during his own turn or that of an ally allowing him to move 3 spaces without moving on the time-track. This wears out the user and the target making it so that they cannot spend additional hours (8-9-10) that day. (basically lets them do these hours for free with a cost when not self-cast)
Also during battle he can turn back time allowing a dice-cast to be redone. (also allow this on the monster throw?) In team battle this has to be decided immediatly after the throw (like with the witch's brew). (for the archer/bow, only 1 die throw or all of them after they are all done?)

5) Berserker (3-4-5) (dwarf)
Receives 1SP for defeating or help defeat a Gor or Skrall, 2 for defeating or help defeat a Wardrak or Troll. The rest of the battlespoils are also distributed normally.
(Can choose to take 1SP in stead of 3WP at a well?)
Cannot buy SP at shop and cannot use a bow (but can buy and hold it).

6) Alchemist (2-3-4) (knight)
Each day after moving the narrator on the legend track (and after reading the legend card if this happens) he makes gold rain from the sky.
Throw 1 red and 1 hero-dice three times. Red is tens, hero is digit. Place 1 gold on each of these spaces. (let WP determine how much gold is randomly dropped?)
(an extra effect?)

7) Barbarian (2-2-2 or 1-2-3 or 1-2-2) (knight or dwarf)
Can always add all of his Dice-throws, without needing a helmet nor a double throw (so getting 2 and 5 makes 7).
(Make buying SP 3 gold instead of 2? / Make battle cost 2 hours instead of 1? / make witch's brew either not work at all, or only on lowest throw?)

8) Empathic Twins (2?-3?-4?) (mage)
Has 2 playpieces. These cannot share a field. Only 1 can take an action during a turn.
They both share the same items, WP and SP. A hero can teleport from one twin to another at the cost of 1 hour (and 1 for the twin?). This can be done during the movement of the teleporting hero. (A twin can also send a hero sharing his space to the other twin during his own turn, ending the turn?)

9) Sentinel (1-2-3-4) (knight)
Has 3 special equipment-items.
- left-hand Plowing Shield (like a snow-plower): once a day can push back a monster along the arrows. If multiple directions are possible its free to choose.
(if a pushed monster passes to a monster-inhabitied field, let it jump over or shove the entire 'line' of monsters up?)
- Head Full-metal Helmet: The sentinel only loses half WP in battle or events. He has no SP, instead his WP represent his SP. Wells only give 2 (or 1?) WP
WP rows are different: 1die - 0-1-2-3
2die - 4-5-6-7
3die - 8-9-10-11
4die - 12-13-14-15
Can also use the helmet as a normal helmet but only once a day (turn around when used, on the token it would be open visors or something)
- right-hand 1-H spear: The spear can be used as a ranged weapon by attacking from an adjacent field
when used place the spear on the attacked field-space. It has to be picked up before it can be used again. Other heroes cannot pick this item up.

Hope you like some of the ideas and I would really apreciate the feedback.
A big thank you beforehand.

[Hagen]

Some really nice ideas, but now you have to paint 9 new heroes
Myself never played a fan hero, so i can't really say what is overpowerd or not.
The sentinel sounds interesting but "- Head Full-metal Helmet: The sentinel only loses half WP in battle or events." I only attack if I have a real chance to win, so in my opinion the special effect ist not necessary.
For next post use the thread "Spielvarianten"
Hagen

[Voske4000]

The sentinel sounds interesting but "- Head Full-metal Helmet: The sentinel only loses half WP in battle or events." I only attack if I have a real chance to win, so in my opinion the special effect ist not necessary.

I usually only attack with a certain win-chance too but sometimes you have to take certain chances, and those negative WP events happen alot in my games... it probably hates me. Also this was mainly for role-play purpose to show this hero is a tanky mofo. ^^

[Xancis]

Hello Voske4000,

some really nice Ideas u get there.
I will try to give u some Feedback from me, how i detect ur ideas.
I hope u understand my english

First of all: we play with many fan made heroes but we normally only take these, who have easy Special abilitys. Balancing is a sensitive issue. For some Players a hero is OP, for other Players it's only normal or too weak, cause they don't use the abilitys. So i try to be objective. By the way there are some OP Heroes here in this Forum, but thats not bad. If you want a stronger hero, cause u can't win a legend u can take it here.

You think about the Hero rank. You should thake a field number, too many Legends have the start Point of the heroes at the number of their rank. But i can't tell you which hero should have which rank.


1. Assassin: wouldn't Play it i think cause it sounds quite complicated. when he can't start a fight he can't fight alone. This is a huge minus. Would be a hard to Play Hero.

2. Beast Tamer: There are already some heroes of this sort. complicated to Balance them. The Base of this ability is good balanced (quite similar to Thorald or the whater ghost of the hero from "new heroes" but think of a troll. If the Team defeats it, they would get 14 SP for free. The final Opponent would be quite easy with this troll next to the Player. Maybe it woult be better the creature disappeares the next day, as u wrote.

3. Master of Time: Sounds really nice but i won't give him too many abilitys. 3 hours for free a day is already quite strong also when he can't make extra hours. So this hero has 10 hours each day for free. normally u have to give him another disadvantage, cause there are some heroes in this Forum, who have 8. or 10. extra hour for free. Ur hero would have all for free.

5. Berserker: This hero seems a Little bit overpowered. There is already a hero here, who gains 1 SP after each win in a fight here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=606
It's Name is Sara,
This hero is already quite strong and has only 1,2,3 dice, urs has up to 5. 1 SP at a well is also a huge Advantage. it doesen't matter that he can't buy SP at the shop, bow isn't important in most legends. You should give him a bigger disadvantage.
Even if u cancel the bow place completely the hero is too strong in my eyes.

6 Alchemist: This is a really good idea, but with 2,3,4 dices he is as strong as the normal warrior. but 3 times Gold rain is maybe a Little bit better than 2 WP more at a well. But it seems quite balanced.

7. Barbarian. Sounds quite good but Needs a disadvantage. Battle cost 2 hours sounds good, so he is stronger but Needs more hours. would be a hero, good for the beginning. at the end warrior or similar heroes would be much better with helmet.

8. sounds quite complicated to me. but when i understand: there are 2 hero figures at the field and u can Switch between them?! this would be unbelievable strong. One of them could defend the Castle and the other one could run for other things. There has to be a bigger disadvantage. 2,3,4 dices are definately too much (same as warrior) But idea sounds great.

9. Sentinel: Also this one is too strong, only the first Special ability sounds similar to one of the gifts of the andori from the expension and he has it for free?! 4 dices are too much.


Summary:
Your Ideas are really good. I like the Alchemist most. Seems good balanced, has a interesting Special ability and is a good alternative for the warrior. maybe let him only drop 2 Gold. Think of it, it would heappen every day.
Please take some time and rethink the number of dices. Take the original heroes heroes and compare These 4 heroes with yours. Only the archer has 5 dices (but has to throw them seperately) the warrior is the strongest one with 4 dices, but has a more or less weak Special ability (in comparison with the wizard)

At least those are your heroes, when u like them as they are, keem them like that.
Maybe anybody else can say something about. Good work, so far.

[Voske4000]

Hello Voske4000,
1. Assassin: wouldn't Play it i think cause it sounds quite complicated. when he can't start a fight he can't fight alone. This is a huge minus. Would be a hard to Play Hero.

I am at work at the moment so will only respond to this one since I believe u dont completely understand the first part of his ability. An update of the other heroes might come later this weekend.

Its not that the assassin can't fight alone. He can start a battle when he's on the same field as the monster, but he can only do the free 'jump-to-adjacent-field-to-attack" ability when someone else initiates the battle.

Also for the barbarian it was indeed my goal to make him early game a tad stronger then late-game (compared to warrior + helmet as you stated yourself)

Thanks alot for the great feedback, i'll be able to work a bit further with this.

[Voske4000]

You think about the Hero rank. You should thake a field number, too many Legends have the start Point of the heroes at the number of their rank. But i can't tell you which hero should have which rank.

yes, the start for the legends was my reason for choosing this option. So i'll just look into it, that way

1. Assassin: wouldn't Play it i think cause it sounds quite complicated. when he can't start a fight he can't fight alone. This is a huge minus. Would be a hard to Play Hero.

see previous post. ^^

2. Beast Tamer: There are already some heroes of this sort. complicated to Balance them. The Base of this ability is good balanced (quite similar to Thorald or the whater ghost of the hero from "new heroes" but think of a troll. If the Team defeats it, they would get 14 SP for free. The final Opponent would be quite easy with this troll next to the Player. Maybe it woult be better the creature disappeares the next day, as u wrote.

Well if it dies off the day after you have to plan it in when you kill it, or wether you would spend time trying to kill it at all before a final boss. This way it would give a kind of 'is it worth it' choice that needs to be considered.
I was also thinking about only allowing it to be used the start of the next day too (so if you kill it on lets say hour 2 you cannot use it untill the start of the next day.) Then it dies off at the end of this day. Meaning the monster can be used for 1 full day. However this would make the planning about the final opponent (as stated earlier) even harder.

3. Master of Time: Sounds really nice but i won't give him too many abilitys. 3 hours for free a day is already quite strong also when he can't make extra hours. So this hero has 10 hours each day for free. normally u have to give him another disadvantage, cause there are some heroes in this Forum, who have 8. or 10. extra hour for free. Ur hero would have all for free.

How about making it so that this ability cannot be self-cast, and each hour he gives to someone else he gives up from his own hours. Honestly role-play-wise this would still make alot of sence. (and also keeping the reroll ability cause i just love that concept ^^)

5. Berserker: This hero seems a Little bit overpowered. There is already a hero here, who gains 1 SP after each win in a fight here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=606
It's Name is Sara,
This hero is already quite strong and has only 1,2,3 dice, urs has up to 5. 1 SP at a well is also a huge Advantage. it doesen't matter that he can't buy SP at the shop, bow isn't important in most legends. You should give him a bigger disadvantage.
Even if u cancel the bow place completely the hero is too strong in my eyes.

ok so lower dice count, still thinking about how to make him weaker.

6 Alchemist: This is a really good idea, but with 2,3,4 dices he is as strong as the normal warrior. but 3 times Gold rain is maybe a Little bit better than 2 WP more at a well. But it seems quite balanced.

I was also playing with the idea to let the gold amount being determined by his total WP, such as 2-3-4 by willpower-level(if this word makes sence).

7. Barbarian. Sounds quite good but Needs a disadvantage. Battle cost 2 hours sounds good, so he is stronger but Needs more hours. would be a hero, good for the beginning. at the end warrior or similar heroes would be much better with helmet.

8. sounds quite complicated to me. but when i understand: there are 2 hero figures at the field and u can Switch between them?! this would be unbelievable strong. One of them could defend the Castle and the other one could run for other things. There has to be a bigger disadvantage. 2,3,4 dices are definately too much (same as warrior) But idea sounds great.

It is indeed quite complicated, this is one of the heroes I designed because I liked the concept, and might be very hard to make it balanced. However since only 1 can take an action during the players turn this already makes the comment you made a bit better. The class is made around mobility for the teammates, and mobility might be quite OP in this game.

9. Sentinel: Also this one is too strong, only the first Special ability sounds similar to one of the gifts of the andori from the expension and he has it for free?! 4 dices are too much.

So it would be balanced if i changed the shields ability and lower dices? Another idea i had for the shield was that instead of pushing back, it makes it so that a monster cant pass 'throught' it. (a shield wall so to speak)
So a monster cant move to its next field, however any monster that would jump over the first monster can (otherwise it would be too strong i think, being able to block a whole 'line' of monsters)

[Voske4000]

bump?

[CaptainCrash]

I say they are always better with me if I like they're design. Then I can't lose with them. If they have like ONE way how they play it is good, they have to have good and bad things, example: The knight goes full in because he can get WP really fast, but the dwarf waits until he has some money then he goes to the mine and then gets strong, and the rest has always something different to do in the game. Understood?
You just have to give them good and bad sides for the different Types of players, if you want to show them online or if you want to play sometimes a different character.

[Voske4000]

I say they are always better with me if I like they're design. Then I can't lose with them. If they have like ONE way how they play it is good, they have to have good and bad things, example: The knight goes full in because he can get WP really fast, but the dwarf waits until he has some money then he goes to the mine and then gets strong, and the rest has always something different to do in the game. Understood?
You just have to give them good and bad sides for the different Types of players, if you want to show them online or if you want to play sometimes a different character.

I don't think i completely understand what your saying.
Do you mean every hero needs a good and a bad trait?

[CaptainCrash]

Not realy more like every hero has a role, Arbon has the ability from Chada but an extra ability which would be overpowered, but he has two dice less. Which makes him fair so everything is a trait ability, number of dice, number of WP, number of SP. So if a character has a realy strong ability he should have less dice or less max. WP. If a character gets less damage he should have less max. WP. O. K.?